Amna Nawaz:
The new wave of Democratic senators are in Washington this week for orientation and are already facing tough questions about how they plan to govern and who they’d like to lead their party. One of them is Abdul El-Sayed from Michigan. His win came after a hard-fought race marked by record outside spending and harsh attacks on his name and his faith. He will be the first Muslim ever elected to the US Senate. And Senator elect Abdul El-Sayed joins me now. Welcome. Thanks for being here.
Abdul El-Sayed:
Thank you so much for having me.
Amna Nawaz:
Congratulations on your win. You’re here for orientation now. You’ve been a few days in Washington meeting new lawmakers. What’s it been like? What surprised you most?
Abdul El-Sayed:
We’ve been thoroughly disoriented. No. You know, honestly, so much of the way that our politics are transacted make you think that these people hate each other in person. And the number of Republican future colleagues who’ve reached out talking about things that they want to work on together, has really been quite surprising.
Amna Nawaz:
That’s already been happening?
Abdul El-Sayed:
Already been happening. And I don’t know if it’s just because too much of the way we do politics is about this sort of inside versus outside approach uh where um they make our politics purposely look like it’s a food fight or it’s because they’re reading the tea leaves about the failure of Trump and Trumpism and folks are looking for partners to actually address some of the biggest challenges that they face. But you know I think the the way to read this election outcome is not as a mandate for Democrats. It is as a thorough repudiation for Trump and Trumpism with the opportunity for Democrats to earn their mandate over the next two years. And my hope is that Republicans see the opportunity to start addressing the failures of the war in Iran, the failures of this tariff policy uh and the impending doom that is going to come if these Medicaid cuts actually take hold in January.
Amna Nawaz:
Can you tell us who’s been reaching out and what they want to work on?
Abdul El-Sayed:
I keep private conversations private, but I will tell you that they are Republican colleagues who had less than nice things to say about me during the campaign.
Amna Nawaz:
Maybe next time you come back, we’ll get some more details on progress.
Abdul El-Sayed:
Perhaps we’ll talk about legislation we work on together.
Amna Nawaz:
One of the first big decisions you’re going to have to make is who will lead the Democrats in the Senate. You have acknowledged the work and the leadership of Chuck Schumer helping to secure these really big historic Senate wins. But you have called for Senator Chris Van Holland to be the next majority leader for the Senate Democrats. Why are you backing him?
Abdul El-Sayed:
Let me just start by saying that Senator Schumer and I worked very well together through the course of the general election. You know, we did not see eye to eye in the primary. He specifically supported my primary opponent, but you know, he understood the need to win Michigan. And he and the institutions that he leads came through in a big way uh to make sure that we were able to secure our uh our victory. That said, this is a moment where we need to pivot from the past into the future. You know, you’ve got this crop of freshman senators that hail from different parts of the country, parts of the country we didn’t know, would elect a Democratic senator. And almost all of us came in saying that we needed to take a fresh approach, a new approach to governing.
Amna Nawaz:
You think Van Holland is a fresh approach? mean, he’s been in Congress since early 2000.
Abdul El-Sayed:
If you’re going to elect a leader, you want somebody who knows their way around the Senate. You know, he’s led the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. He has been a part of some of the most important legislation that has been passed. So he knows how to move a bill. He knows how to engage with his colleagues. He understands the caucus in a new and unique way. But at the same time, he takes a new approach. He’s willing to take risks. For one, you know, when he chose to fly to El Salvador uh to meet with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, that was a real risk. When he chose to go to the Rafa crossing, that was a real risk. And he’s shown his willingness to take those risks. And so, I just think he is somebody who both combines the understanding of the United States Senate as an institution, as a body, the processes of the Senate with the willingness to lead forward uh and to take some real risks.
Amna Nawaz:
Let’s talk about what you want to do on that legislation front. You said one of the priorities is to reverse those Medicaid cuts. We know the new work requirements go into effect January 1st, but a repeal bill is likely going to face a veto from President Trump. You do not have 60 votes in the Senate to override it. So what is the plan to get that done?
Abdul El-Sayed:
Well, let’s just think about what Medicaid cuts are going to do. When Medicaid gets cut, it doesn’t just affect people on Medicaid because folks still get sick. So, now they’re going to get health care when it’s the most expensive, usually in an emergency room. So, what happens to those hospitals? Well, they’re now facing costs that they can’t bear. It’s a big reason why it putting a lot of rural hospitals and health care centers in real danger of shutting down.
Amna Nawaz:
So, can you repeal these cuts?
Abdul El-Sayed:
But here’s the point I’m making. If you are a senator from a state that is predominantly rural and because of the structure of the United States Senate, a lot of our senators disproportionately come from rural states on the other side of the aisle. So now you’re looking at the potential collapse of your entire health care system in a state like Wyoming, in a state like Idaho, in a state like Montana, in a state like the Dakotas. And there’s a real opportunity for us to say maybe we should not do that. And your electorate is probably looking at Trump and Trumpism and saying, “Yeah, I don’t know about that.” And if there’s still something you can save from that big, ugly bill, maybe this is the opportunity to do it. So, I would not be surprised if we put a clean bill on the if we put a clean bill out there. I would not be surprised if we were able to get a lot of Republicans on board, maybe even a veto proof majority.
Amna Nawaz:
Medicare for all is a big part of your platform as well. And you’ve said recently that you are willing to call it “Trumpcare for All” if that helps to get the president on board. Is that a serious offer?
Abdul El-Sayed:
Yeah, I mean look, I don’t care what we call it. I ran to get people healthcare. I really don’t care what the name is. I want you to think about this. We are the richest, most powerful country in the world. And the idea that you cannot afford healthcare in this country. The idea that the collective medical debt is greater than the GDP of half the states in this country is insane. And meanwhile, you’ve got a president who’s fighting a war. So, I’m just saying, hey, you did some dumb stuff. This would actually be a smart thing. And it seems like you like to put your name on things. So, why don’t you put your name on the program that could finally address the unmet promise of America once and for all? It is the biggest affordability issue in America right now. We can solve it.
Amna Nawaz:
I just want to clarify, you’ve not been in touch with the president directly since you’ve won, have you?
Abdul El-Sayed:
I have not, but I communicate to him in the same way everybody communicates to him and he communicates to everybody else, which is on social media, apparently. So, Donald, if you’re watching, let’s do it.
Amna Nawaz:
So, in the last couple of weeks, we’ve seen the president name Steven Miller as his chief of staff. You’ve seen House Republicans name Jim Jordan as their next leader. You’ve seen the DOJ threaten Democratic lawmakers who will engage in oversight of the administration. What do you expect to see from the Trump administration in these next two years?
Abdul El-Sayed:
So, he said he wants to work with Democrats. I take everybody’s claims on good faith and then when you look at where House Republicans have gone in choosing Jim Jordan as their minority leader, you look at what he’s chosen in Stephen Miller as his White House chief of staff. It seems like the actions don’t quite match the statements. You know, at the end of the day, this is a White House we’re going to have to figure out how to engage with.
Amna Nawaz:
Can you work with this White House? Can you work with Stephen Miller?
Abdul El-Sayed:
That’s a choice Stephen Miller is gonna have to make.
Amna Nawaz:
Your win in Michigan was nothing if not dramatic. Besides making history in someone with your faith joining the Senate, you overcame your primary rival, Haley Stevens, endorsing your Republican opponent at the last minute and you still won by seven points. Have you talked to Haley Stevens since then or heard from her since your win?
Abdul El-Sayed:
No, I’m more focused on leading for Michigan.
Amna Nawaz:
Do you anticipate speaking with her? And the reason I ask is because Democrats say they want a big tent party. Some are calling for her to be expelled. Is there room in the Democratic party for someone like Haley Stevens?
Abdul El-Sayed:
Well, when you self-expel, at some point, you’re choosing to walk all the way out of the tent. And that was a choice she made.
Amna Nawaz:
And yet, your party has not yet reached consensus on this big issue of U.S. support for Israel. It was a big issue during your primary. Continues to divide many Democrats. Do you need to reach some kind of consensus to be legislatively united?
Abdul El-Sayed:
Tell you this, the public has pretty much clearly reached consensus. We don’t pay our tax dollars to buy bombs and tanks for other countries. We want to pay our tax dollars to buy good schools and healthcare here on our own. Whether or not parties recognize that, that is their choice. I think that for us, we should be conditional, right, when it comes to any foreign military aid on upholding international law. So why would we send our money to a country that is absolutely destroying, making a mockery out of international law, whether it’s genocide or apartheid or it is a war we have no business fighting for the annexation of a different country. If any other country behaved that way, we would think very differently about calling them an ally. I think it’s our responsibility for us to just go where our principles say we ought to go and treat everybody similarly. And I’ll say the same thing. I don’t pay my tax dollars so the government of Egypt gets tanks or the government of Pakistan or the government of Saudi Arabia. I don’t believe that we should be doing unconditional foreign military aid as a matter of course.
Amna Nawaz:
The last time you and I talked was several years ago. You were running for governor of Michigan back then and you were just about to become a father for the first time. Your daughter was, I think, days before she was born. You’ve seen since then anti-Muslim sentiment continue to rise in this country and it showed up in attacks against you in this election cycle. Your eldest daughter in particular, now she’s old enough to see that and to hear that. And I just wonder what you and your wife tell her and talk to her about.
Abdul El-Sayed:
Well, you know, Sara is the real hero of this whole campaign.
Amna Nawaz:
And that’s your wife.
Abdul El-Sayed:
My wife Sara, and she and I, when we kicked off this campaign, it was a real commitment to us that any of the strife that would come with this that we would do all we could to protect the girls from it. So there were rules around when the TV could be on uh so that they wouldn’t be hit with one of those ugly commercials. We tried to narrate the experience for them so that they had an understanding of what was done. And my goal of this was that this was something that they would experience in a blunted way in you know in real time and then read about someday in real time — or afterwards. And the hard part for me really throughout this whole thing was talking to friends and folks in the community who said how I explain this to my kids what I’m seeing out there. And the answer I’d always say is the story’s not yet done. You know, if you watch a thriller, um, sometimes in the middle of the thriller, it looks like the bad guys is going to win. And, you know, as I said in in in my victory speech, the bad guys lost. And that’s because I took a bet on Michigan. I didn’t take a bet on me. I took a bet on Michigan. Michiganers are good people. They are open-minded. They’re big-hearted. They care less about how you pray than than what you pray for. And I had 19 months of traveling up and down my state, meeting people who had never met somebody of my faith before, who are less interested in talking about faith and our differences than using our differences and an opportunity to talk about what we share together. That’s human nature and human instinct. And there’s always a few small-minded people who want to make America small like them. But America always responds and reminds us just how big America is. And that’s a real gift. And so, you know, as we talk about this, it is important to me that all of those families out there of children who’ve been told they don’t belong for some reason or another, not necessarily because they share my faith or because maybe they they love a different way, they they look a different way, a color of their skin, or they’re just being picked on by somebody, that they remember that in the end, the good in people wins out. And we are big, we are inclusive, uh, and we’re stronger because of that. And I’m just so proud of my state for having made that argument, once again.
Amna Nawaz:
It’s Democratic senator elect from Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed, joining us here today.
Abdul El-Sayed:
Thank you for your time, Amna. Thanks for having me.
