AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
The British TV show Rivals revels in not being subtle.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Welcome to the naughtiest show on television.
RASCOE: A titillating romp through the ranks of the English upper classes, the series is based on the novels of Jilly Cooper. Set in the cutthroat world of 1980s commercial television, the Season 1 finale ended with media baron Lord Tony Baddingham (ph) getting whacked on the head with a golden statuette.
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DAVID TENNANT: (As Tony, Lord Baddingham) Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. Which one of you greased the front steps, eh?
(LAUGHTER)
RASCOE: Now, the ruthless lord, played by David Tennant, is out for revenge in Season 2. But one of the biggest surprises of the show has been the emergence of, well, a very unlikely sex symbol.
DANNY DYER: Well, listen, I’m a man who’s, like, pushing 50. And I had a wig on and a mustache. You know, there’s a lot of sexy men in this show, and Freddie isn’t meant to be one of them.
RASCOE: That’s Danny Dyer, who plays Freddie Jones, a self-made millionaire. He’s falling in love with Lizzie Vereker, played by Katherine Parkinson.
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DYER: (As Freddie Jones) I can’t stop thinking about you.
KATHERINE PARKINSON: (As Lizzie Vereker) Me, too.
DYER: (As Freddie Jones) It’s like a beautiful dream I had.
RASCOE: Dyer says his character is about making kindness sexy.
DYER: So it’s not about having a six-pack or being ripped and all that sort of stuff. Yes, the man’s got money. That can be attractive. But he’s actually a really kind soul. And Freddie and Lizzie are soulmates. They’re so meant to be together, and that’s what makes it so intriguing. And so it’s sort of heartbreaking, really, that they’re sort of stuck within these relationships that they don’t really want to be in anymore because their partners are so horrible to them.
So the first series, obviously, it’s like, OK, they get it on. And they feel instantly guilty about it ’cause you’ve got to understand if you watch this show, the sex – people – there’s no guilt involved. People just get – they’re at it all the time.
RASCOE: Yeah. Yeah.
DYER: All of a sudden, there’s two characters like, oh, no, what are we doing? This is terrible. There’s children involved. There’s – you know, it was a revelation to me and Katherine that people were actually rooting for adultery.
RASCOE: Do you think people are showing just maybe a compassion to these characters, as you said, because they see that their marriages are so difficult for them?
DYER: I don’t know. I just think it’s a surprise that people are rooting for that relationship so much because it is about love, and it’s about two people that shouldn’t be together but should at the same time. So, you know, the fact that they’ve really pushed Freddie and Lizzie’s story more – because if you do read the books, you know, sort of – Freddie and Lizzie, they sort of flit in and out. They’re not really sort of the main part.
So it was just really the reaction of the audience that really made the writers go, well, we need to really sort of, like, explore this just a little bit more, you know, and just try and see how interesting this is, you know, because it really is interesting, you know? They’re good people. Especially my character, Freddie – you know, he’s very working class. You know, I’m sort of representing the working classes, and I’m really proud of that.
RASCOE: Talk to me about that. One of the big themes of the show is class, and you grew up in a working-class family. How significant is the class system in the U.K. today?
DYER: Well, it’s very apparent and more than ever. You know, there’s a lot of division going on at the moment, and I think it’s not just here. I think in America, the same – it’s like, it’s a sort of divide-and-conquer thing going on. You know, as long as we’re all arguing with each other, we’re not pointing our fingers at the right people. You know, it’s like, I think in “Rivals,” we’re really capturing that, especially in the ’80s. And it’s like, I’m the richest one in it, but yet, I don’t have status in the sense of – because of the way of my accent, but he’s a highly intelligent man, Freddie.
And you’ll learn as Series 2 goes on, I speak about five different languages – which was very difficult for me as an actor, by the way, like, because I barely speak English. I’m sort of riding about on a horse, as well. Never rid a horse in my life. And all of a sudden, I’m like, I’m playing polo, and I’m like, you know, like, how on earth am I going to get through this? I just hope they don’t ask me to speak Japanese while I’m on a horse ’cause that’s too much.
RASCOE: Yeah. Well, you talked about the cast because the show – like, it focuses on the rivalry between the characters, Lord Tony Baddingham and then Rupert Campbell-Black, played by Alex Hassell. I mean, what was it like acting with them but also, like, being immersed in the 80s, right? Like, ’cause (laughter) – ’cause that’s…
DYER: I loved it.
RASCOE: …Another part of this. Yeah.
DYER: I loved it. Listen, I was born in 1977, so I remember the ’80s very well.
RASCOE: Yeah.
DYER: There’s lots of photographs of me as a kid, like, sort of having my nappy, like, diaper changed with, like, an ashtray next to my head and a cigarette in it. You know what I mean? Everybody smoked. Everybody drank, big shoulder pads. You know, like, you know, it was, like, a mad decade, the ’80s. I don’t think any other decade – oh, the ’60s has got something about it, you know, the ’70s as well. But there was something about the ’80s, where everything was bigger.
RASCOE: We talked about your working-class background, but I understand that you do have some royal blood. Like, you’re related to a king.
DYER: Well, I had a – I did a show called “Who Do You Think You Are?” which is where you…
RASCOE: Oh, yeah.
DYER: …Sort of – you know, like, they trace your ancestry. And I knew…
RASCOE: Yes.
DYER: …Nothing about my ancestry. But yeah, it turns out, my blood goes back to – look, it goes right back to, like, Henry – King Edward III, so it’s a direct line. And also, like, the one who’s more interesting to me was a guy called Thomas Cromwell…
RASCOE: Oh, OK.
DYER: …Who was Henry VIII’s right-hand man. So he’s my 15-time great-grandfather.
RASCOE: Wow.
DYER: And he was played by an actor called Mark Rylance in a show called “Wolf Hall.” Now, I’m destined to play this man. Now, I love him more than the royal thing because this guy came from nothing in the 16th century, and he rose through the ranks. He went to Florence. He learned the language. He became a lawyer, and he became Henry VIII’s right-hand man. Anyway, my man, my 15-times great-grandfather, became far too powerful. And so all the aristocrats – they had enough of him, and they convinced Henry to kill him and sort of chop his head off. And he regretted it ever since. Henry VIII was never the same.
RASCOE: Oh, my gosh. There was a lot going on with your ancestors.
DYER: Oh (ph), I was so good, Ayesha. I went on and done a spinoff show called “Danny Dyer’s Right Royal Family,” like, ’cause I’m related to, like, William the Conqueror and all that. It’s like, mental.
RASCOE: Oh, my gosh. So – well, so then they got to let you play Cromwell with all of that (laughter).
DYER: Well, I need to play Cromwell at some point.
RASCOE: (Laughter).
DYER: I mean, maybe do, like, a stage version. That would be my ultimate role, to play Thomas Cromwell at some point in my life.
RASCOE: Well, you know, I mean, I did just want to ask you – I mean, obviously, this show is not a documentary. It’s entertainment. It’s based on novels. But having said that, what do you think an American audience will learn about British high society but also British working-class people from a show like this?
DYER: Well, I really hope they get something from it. Listen, I know that, you know, the Americans – they love, like, “Bridgerton.” They love “Downton Abbey.”
RASCOE: Yes.
DYER: “Sanditon” (ph) – you know, there’s certain shows that have really hit in America. And I mean, I would love to come across the pond. And, you know, like I said, I’ve been around a long time, and I think I’ve done some good work in the U.K. I’ve also done some, like, rubbish stuff as well, as you do. You got to pay bills. But the thing about this is that this show is very authentic in the sense of, we’re not trying to hide what the ’80s were.
I think a lot of shows now, they’re so frightened to make, you know, anything controversial or, you know, they’re upset anybody. So what we’ve done with “Rivals” is it’s an honest depiction. Of course, we’re sending it up a little bit. But it’s also highlighting, like, you know, in the mid-80s, like, a long time ago, like, nothing much has changed really other than the fact that people vape now instead of smoking.
RASCOE: (Laughter) Yeah.
DYER: I mean, but other than that, it’s still the political side of things, and there ain’t much change, and it’s such a shame. I really hope that we can, you know, sort the world out somehow, darling, I’ll tell you.
RASCOE: That’s Danny Dyer. He plays Freddie Jones in “Rivals.” Season 2 is now streaming on Hulu. Thank you so much for joining us.
DYER: What a pleasure it’s been.
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